Curse

iVendetta · Mar 19, 2009, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by talisk3

@infamous-I'd keep [Splinter Weapon] but I agree about dropping [Weaken Armor] since there is no point to it.

Well, I thought that since enemies in HM have higher armor, cracked armor would help me tear them apart easier.

infamous16 · Mar 19, 2009, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by iVendetta

Well, I thought that since enemies in HM have higher armor, cracked armor would help me tear them apart easier.

Trust me, you will be fine without it.

in sab, i dont have many conditions besides the ones the minion bomber applys, discord is a different story...

btw you should try [discord] with 1 roj smiter instead of the other nec.

iVendetta · Mar 19, 2009, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Discordway is better than Sabway?

infamous16 · Mar 19, 2009, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by iVendetta

Discordway is better than Sabway?

It's more preference, but people say discord is better for caster professions.

Discord and 1 roj could be very good, all ARMOR IGNORING damage which is awesome in hm.

Daesu · Mar 19, 2009, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by infamous16

It's more preference, but people say discord is better for caster professions.

Discord and 1 roj could be very good, all ARMOR IGNORING damage which is awesome in hm.

Discord doesn't synergize with RoJ since RoJ is not a hex and its burning is too short to support discord.

Sabway can work with RoJ better since its elite skills are not that crucial to the team build as discord obviously is, to discordway.

talisk3 · Mar 19, 2009, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by iVendetta

Discordway is better than Sabway?

Discordway is much much less enjoyable.
You need a hex and condition to put on an enemy. So most people use [Assassins Promise] and [You Move Like a Dwarf!]. That takes up your elite and 1 other skill slot. So you don't get to run a build of your choosing. So for Discordway. You pretty much change your build to match your heroes instead of the other way around.

iVendetta · Mar 19, 2009, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by talisk3

Discordway is much much less enjoyable.
You need a hex and condition to put on an enemy. So most people use [Assassins Promise] and [You Move Like a Dwarf!]. That takes up your elite and 1 other skill slot. So you don't get to run a build of your choosing. So for Discordway. You pretty much change your build to match your heroes instead of the other way around.

Doesn't sound very intriguing. As a melee profession, I'll stick with Sabway.

Daesu · Mar 19, 2009, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by talisk3

Discordway is much much less enjoyable.
You need a hex and condition to put on an enemy. So most people use [Assassins Promise] and [You Move Like a Dwarf!]. That takes up your elite and 1 other skill slot. So you don't get to run a build of your choosing. So for Discordway. You pretty much change your build to match your heroes instead of the other way around.

If you follow the pvx version of discordway to the letter, then yes you need to bring AP. That version is more suitable for a caster anyway.

You can also build a version of discordway that would work with melee, without using AP, as long as you know how to call.

Illoyon · Mar 21, 2009, 10:13 PM // 22:13

i think the mm is just too energy heavy...even for soul reaping, olias cant manage prots and minions. what i am doing wrong?

infamous16 · Mar 21, 2009, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illoyon

i think the mm is just too energy heavy...even for soul reaping, olias cant manage prots and minions. what i am doing wrong?

post up the build and attributes you are using

and if he has a staff or wand and offhand for the right attribute for the energy bonus and such.

Illoyon · Mar 21, 2009, 11:29 PM // 23:29

olias build:

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 sou=9+1 pro=9][Jagged Bones][Animate Shambling Horror][Animate Bone Fiend][Death Nova][Putrid Bile][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

Equipment:

40/40 death set
survivor Insignia on every slot

[Animate Bone Fiend] kills his e-management, he just able to have 7-8 minions over time and cant use prots often.
I used the pvxwiki build before:

[build prof=N/Mo death=12 sou=9 pro=9][Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Putrid Bile][No Skill][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

they changed it into the original build from this thread...so i tried it and it doesnt work very well.

Daesu · Mar 22, 2009, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illoyon

olias build:

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 sou=9+1 pro=9][Jagged Bones][Animate Shambling Horror][Animate Bone Fiend][Death Nova][Putrid Bile][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

Equipment:

40/40 death set
survivor Insignia on every slot

[Animate Bone Fiend] kills his e-management, he just able to have 7-8 minions over time and cant use prots often.
I used the pvxwiki build before:

[build prof=N/Mo death=12 sou=9 pro=9][Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Putrid Bile][No Skill][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

they changed it into the original build from this thread...so i tried it and it doesnt work very well.

Animate Bone Fiends is energy intensive but it is not that bad provided you are killing fast enough for SR and SoLS to take effect. Make sure that you are targeting the healers first and you are using a strong build for your character. If you are still having energy problems, then switch the fiends out for bone horrors.

Bone minions is good for minion bombing (that is why Sab left it there as a variant), but they dont last long against AoE damage.

brakner · Mar 23, 2009, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illoyon

olias build:

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 sou=9+1 pro=9][Jagged Bones][Animate Shambling Horror][Animate Bone Fiend][Death Nova][Putrid Bile][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

Equipment:

40/40 death set
survivor Insignia on every slot

[Animate Bone Fiend] kills his e-management, he just able to have 7-8 minions over time and cant use prots often.
I used the pvxwiki build before:

[build prof=N/Mo death=12 sou=9 pro=9][Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Putrid Bile][No Skill][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

they changed it into the original build from this thread...so i tried it and it doesnt work very well.

Also if you are H/H take Eve/Claude/random Nec mana battery, their Blood Ritual skill is very spammable

. Being a Nec themselves with getting Soul Reaping they can also spam their 10e spells without going dry. Taking Mana Battery Nec has enabled me to use just Livia as a healer in 8 man because she never ever runs out of energy

With Soul Reaping and Eve mana pumping Olias he can easily replace his Fiends even in the thick of batlle.

I usually go.

Master C
Olias MM
Livia healer
Eve
Herta
Odurra
Devona ( cause I like when she attaks things on the other side of the map

)

Edit:

Hrm I just had a thought, going to give my Master of Whispers (curse ) a level 0 Blood Ritual since its base duration is 8 seconds ( replacing Rip Enchantment ), this way I can get my mana battery for Olias’s Fiends and can replace Eve and see how well the group does.

brakner · Mar 23, 2009, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Ok that didn’t work to well, he spends way to much time on Blood Ritual in battle and not cursing. I guess I could disable it during battle and use it for after to speed up Olias and creating Fiends.

Paul Dawg · Mar 24, 2009, 04:47 AM // 04:47

The problem is that [animate shambling horror] and [animate bone fiend] don't sync with [jagged bones] nearly as well as the original [animate bone minions] does. They just take up slots.

What was it about the original MM build that didn't work for you? It's a whole lot better than what you're using now. Your build suggests to me that you don't really understand how the Sabway MM works. The point is that he's a minion BOMBER. That means you want fast cheap minions who keep replenishing themselves with [jagged bones].

Also, I'm not convinced that Survivor on all pieces of armor makes that much sense for a hero. That's a PvP thing. One Survivor is OK, but then you need a Bloodstained, then probably also want a Radiant on his legs, and Tormentor's usually works well in PvE for the other armor pieces.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illoyon

olias build:

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 sou=9+1 pro=9][Jagged Bones][Animate Shambling Horror][Animate Bone Fiend][Death Nova][Putrid Bile][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

Equipment:

40/40 death set
survivor Insignia on every slot

[Animate Bone Fiend] kills his e-management, he just able to have 7-8 minions over time and cant use prots often.
I used the pvxwiki build before:

[build prof=N/Mo death=12 sou=9 pro=9][Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Putrid Bile][No Skill][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

they changed it into the original build from this thread...so i tried it and it doesnt work very well.

brakner · Mar 26, 2009, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

The problem is that [animate shambling horror] and [animate bone fiend] don't sync with [jagged bones] nearly as well as the original [animate bone minions] does. They just take up slots.

What was it about the original MM build that didn't work for you? It's a whole lot better than what you're using now. Your build suggests to me that you don't really understand how the Sabway MM works. The point is that he's a minion BOMBER. That means you want fast cheap minions who keep replenishing themselves with [jagged bones].

Also, I'm not convinced that Survivor on all pieces of armor makes that much sense for a hero. That's a PvP thing. One Survivor is OK, but then you need a Bloodstained, then probably also want a Radiant on his legs, and Tormentor's usually works well in PvE for the other armor pieces.

The problem I find with [animate shambling horror] and [animate bone fiend] is he cant replace is losses fast enough in a big fight, even with [jagged bones]. The 25 Second delay or 25e cost is a hindrance to effective bombing in combat , maybe something like this [aura of the lich] toggled off so you can hit it in the middle to get an instant 5+ minions?

brakner · Mar 27, 2009, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Ok [Aura of the Lich] officially rocks! I just did Service: In Defense of the Eye (Master) and there is nothing like and instant 10 horrors every 45 Sec

. Combind with the single cast horrors Olias always had 10 up even with 20 things beating on me. The fight was such a peice of cake, I really like this skill now for crazy fights with lots of corpses.

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+3 sou=8+1 pro=9 hea=5][Aura of the Lich][Animate Bone Horror][Putrid Bile][Death Nova][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Dwayna's Sorrow][Cure Hex][/build]

Going to use it a bit more, but it was nice and fast for summons. Keep [Aura of the Lich] toggled off and let him spam [Animate Bone Horror]. Then halfway through the fight when 2/3 of the minions are dead click it and boom instantly back to 10 minions

This also fixes the issue Sab's Shambling/Fiend MM has with not enough energy to summons during a fight sometimes. I found since Olias had 10 minions up all the time he spent way more time using Prot spells and casting Bile/Death nova.

Super Igor · Mar 27, 2009, 04:15 PM // 16:15

[aura of the lich] is strong. :P

Showtime · Mar 27, 2009, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by brakner

The problem I find with [animate shambling horror] and [animate bone fiend] is he cant replace is losses fast enough in a big fight, even with [jagged bones]. The 25 Second delay or 25e cost is a hindrance to effective bombing in combat , maybe something like this [aura of the lich] toggled off so you can hit it in the middle to get an instant 5+ minions?

Lol, [aura of the lich] is what I started using the past few days after having problems with jagged. It's funny cuz I don't do much experimenting on the rare occasions that I play, but I switched to see if I could get it going faster in FoW. 2 corpses and I'm up and running.

Daesu · Mar 28, 2009, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by brakner

The problem I find with [animate shambling horror] and [animate bone fiend] is he cant replace is losses fast enough in a big fight, even with [jagged bones]. The 25 Second delay or 25e cost is a hindrance to effective bombing in combat ,

Both fiends and shamblings are not meant for bombing. Fiends are fast attack minions, staying well behind the front lines and costs an expensive 25e each, do you really think they are meant for bombing?

Shamblings has a long 25s recharge. Certainly not meant to be a reliable skill to generate minions for bombing on its own.

If you want to bomb, use bone minions.